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Marilyn Manson Spotted Having Dinner With Rose McGowan

Journalist and screenwriter Phoebe Eaton spotted Marilyn Manson and someone she assumed to be Rose McGowan - "or at least, her doppelganger" - having dinner this past Sunday (6/2/24) at the legendary and very touristy Musso and Frank Grill in Hollywood. Though she made it sound like she was unsure of the identity of the woman with Manson (I'm sure she just found it hard to believe), and since a barrier kept her hidden most of the time, it has been anonymously confirmed that it was indeed Manson's ex-fiance Rose McGowan with him at dinner. Though it is unknown why they were having dinner together, we can assume they are at least on friendly enough terms to do so, which is quite significant in light of the roller coaster ride over the past few years since Evan Rachel Wood and others named Manson as their abuser in February 2021. As I have written elsewhere, we know that in 2020 Manson and McGowan were friendly and talking again, but as Evan's public testimony about

Grey Rocks and Flying Monkeys: My Thoughts on Evan Rachel Wood's Interview With Dr. Ramani Durvasula


On October 5, 2013, Evan Rachel Wood was interviewed on the YouTube show called Navigating Narcissism hosted by Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a licensed clinical psychologist. The premise of this show is to "help you spot red flags and heal from the narcissist in your life." It is a nearly two hour interview, which I will offer my thoughts on chronologically as I listened. You can listen along as I make some relevant points:


 
1. First thing I want to point out is that Evan was not 18 when she began dating Manson. They met for the first time in July 2006 (her birthday is September 7th), when she was 18 and he was 37, and were just friends for many months. They did not begin dating until January 2007, when Evan was well into being 19 and it was around Manson's 38th birthday. Evan now says it was only a few months after they met that things got romantic, which would still put her 19, but in 2007 both were emphatically stating in interviews that the romance didn't spark between them until around early January 2007.

2. Evan begins by lying about having stress seizures. We know she is lying, because this is the first time she is bringing this up after numerous times talking about this, ad nauseum. She does this in every interview, where she brings up a new "fact" that is attention grabbing for the media to make a headline out of. It should be noted that something as common as a panic attack can be interpreted as a stress seizure, but when Evan calls something like a panic attack a "stress seizure" it adds to the horrific nature of what she alleges happened. In this interview, both Evan and Dr. Ramani like to use these buzz words, pop psychology terminology, as rhetorical tools and polemical weapons to make a victim sound as victimized as possible and the alleged abuser sound as monstrous as possible.

3. As opposed to what Evan explains in this interview, we already know why Evan began talking about her abuse and rape. It was for a number of reasons I have written about before, but it mainly centers on the fact that she was trying to refashion herself as an advocate of all abused women, especially bisexual women, and it was a new talking point in her bisexual advocacy which initially began in 2011 when she first came out publicly. Then in November 2016 she first started talking about her rape in order to grab the attention of Rolling Stone to get on the cover, because it was her personal ambition to make it on the cover of Rolling Stone, and it was something she wanted to be done the month Donald Trump was elected president, because as she explained a year later in an essay for Nylon, she saw herself as the savior of the abused and Trump represented all abusers.

4. By Evan insisting on calling Manson "Brian Warner", she is doing nothing more than trying to control the narrative and make her look more powerful and dominant over him, belittling him in the process, because that is what is shown when someone names someone else against their will. Essentially, she is trying to do as much violence to him as possible without being physically violent by enslaving him into her own names and categories. This is what narcissists do, and its usually a tactic of false accusers. On the flip side, if you go to Evan's Instagram profile, she makes it a point to tell people that she does not like being called Rachel, once again showing the level of control she wants in forming her own narrative.

5. To justify her horrible Phoenix Act legislation, Evan quickly discards the idea that a survivor of abuse should go to the police. Never does Evan advise a victim of abuse to go to the police, because she insists the police won't do anything for you, and by no means try to get a restraining order against your abuser, because this will only anger your abuser more and make the situation more dangerous for the victim. In fact, here she specifically says that "a million things" have to take place before you go to the police. This is extremely dangerous thinking and advice, and is a sure way for a real survivor to never get justice and instead it allows false accusers to more easily get what they want. Unfortunately her interviewer, who should know better, bases a lot of her information obviously on what false accusers like Evan say, which shouldn't surprise us because Evan chose her for a reason to interview her. If a real survivor even hopes to get some sort of justice, instead of just a payout years later which will make her look like a false accuser, then before the "million" steps are taken, she should at least make a report as quickly as possible. This is what women should be taught, not that they should wait years and years until some sort of full realization comes to them before they report it, a realization which in fact could produce many false memories.

6. It's pretty funny when she says she had to study Manson for years while in a relationship with him in order to manipulate him into letting her go. I mean, statements like this just makes me think she thinks her audience is stupid enough to buy what she is saying. It is telling however that she says she had to study Manson's gaslighting and manipulation in order to convince him to let her go, but when she describes how she did it, she basically describes herself as a gaslighter and manipulator. In other words, she had to gaslight and manipulate Manson in order for him to let go of her.

The reality of the breakup seems to have been that Evan was more about doing her own thing, and it came to a point where Manson was just one man in her rotation of men (and maybe women) while Evan was just one woman in Manson's rotation of women, and it eventually blew up to where they were no longer interested in each other. Both Manson and Evan knew, even after they were engaged, that they would never get married, because her parents were too much against the idea. And Manson and Evan were hardly around each other for any significant amount of time after they were engaged, and even before. They were just on two different paths in life, contrary to what Evan would have us believe that she basically sacrificed everything for Manson.

7. When Evan brings up how Manson was threatening Evan with the photos and videos of her, this is a gaslighting tactic of hers to make sure that if any photos and videos of her emerge, then she will twist it to mean that Manson is continuing the abuse against her, while in reality he is exposing her as a liar.

8. My summary of this whole interview: Nearly two hours of Evan manipulating and gaslighting us to form an alternate reality of what really happened between her and Manson. Well, what else is new.

9. "I think they call it grey rock?" Of course Evan knows what grey rocking is, Evan has studied all the lingo to justify her manipulation of the facts to turn it in her favor, and she is always adding new words as she learns them. She has admitted this for years, and even said one reason she made Phoenix Rising was in order to give language to survivors to explain their abuse. Personally, I see grey rocking as more dangerous than issuing a restraining order, the latter of which Evan is very much against because she believes it could result in an abuser getting more angry. But nothing would anger a real abuser more than being grey rocked, in my opinion. I think an accurate depiction of grey rocking is in the movie Wolf of Wall Street, towards the end, when the Margot Robbie character grey rocks the Leonardo DiCaprio character, and it basically drives him into having a fit and become violent.

We should also recall that Evan didn't seem to like it much when she described Marilyn Manson as displaying something close to grey rock behavior in Phoenix Rising, when she says she returned from filming The Wrestler, and she approached Manson in bed excited and happy to tell him about her experiences (as if they weren't already talking on the phone) but he was just completely changed and uninterested, and she blamed Twiggy for this new change. You can see the segment here.


10. Evan continues to manipulate and gaslight when she says that Manson was telling his inner circle lies about her, like when he told someone that she slit her wrists to get attention or when he told someone she was cheating. First of all, there is no evidence Evan actually slit her wrists. In early 2008, she did have a few cuts on her forearm that she prominently and I would say proudly displayed for many months in photos, which seemed to be from a one time unknown event (Evan has been known to cut herself from the age of 12). Second, there were widespread rumors circulating in 2008 that Evan was cheating on Manson, so if he believed those rumors at the time for good reasons, why shouldn't he call her out on them? The only reason she brings this up is to give a narrative to those many photos of cuts on her forearm from 2008 within the context of alleged abuse, as she did on Twitter in 2019 to promote the hashtag #IAmNotOK. As for her cheating, it is well known that Evan is referring to Colonel Kurtz's interview with Manson's friend Manzin (who was also friends with Evan for many years after her relationship with Manson ended), who said he was told in 2010 by Manson when Evan got her abortion that it was not his and he went to New York to be there for her as she got the abortion while filming Mildred Pierce. It was because of this Manzin interview that Evan included her own spin in part two of Phoenix Rising of Manson getting her pregnant because he refused any form of birth control and then forced her to make him dinner as soon as her abortion was over, once again completely gaslighting and manipulating the facts to fit her narrative.

11. 12 minutes into this video, I have heard nothing but Evan gaslighting and manipulating us the listeners to twist the facts that she knows makes her look bad and making herself in turn to be the victim of gaslighting and manipulation. It is one of the worst displays of Evan's narcissism since Phoenix Rising, and she seems to be getting better and better at it but at the same time it is so obvious what she is doing. What I find most disappointing is that Dr. Ramani Durvasula herself has a YouTube channel devoted to exposing narcissism and she can't even see it when it's in front of her eyes. Instead, she encourages it, which probably means she herself is a narcissist too, since I have found that people who talk a lot about narcissism and accuse others of being so usually are one themselves. Like all the other pop psychology terms Evan employs, it is a word that is most often employed as a weapon by narcissists.

12. Another thing Evan keeps bringing up in this interview are these rules and methods she was following to plan her escape, as if she was an expert in psychology while in a relationship with Manson, when in reality these are things she read about in the past few years, many years after being with Manson, and based on her readings she formulated the narrative of her heroic escape. This is one of those obvious ways Evan shows that she is fabricating what she is saying.

13. The way Evan goes on to describe Manson having no friends except to get something he wanted out of them just makes Evan sound like a vindictive person, like someone who has let hatred stir in her heart for a long time. She is trying to paint him as an evil cult leader who was only about himself and that she was his innocent and pure victim, and she does this in order to remove herself from any accountability in whatever regrets she now has, but this is a whole other level of wickedness on her part when you try so hard to push the narrative that someone is evil over and over again. Evan should be smart enough to realize that when anyone looks back on a past relationship they come to regret years later, that they only see the negative in that person based on their current mood and interpretation and not the reality of what they experienced at the time. Everyone does this who comes out of a bad or toxic relationship.
 
Here is a personal story, to give an extreme example of this. I knew of a man from New York who thought his ex-wife was demon possessed because she divorced him and he wanted her back, but could only interpret her change of attitude towards him as being demonic, literally. Looking back, it sounds like she was grey rocking him hard. He would call a close friend of mine in New York City who was and is still a Bishop to get him to perform an exorcism on her, and he refused because he thought this man was having a psychotic breakdown. This Bishop tried to help him and talk him out of thinking like that, but he refused. He couldn't interpret his ex-wife's attitude and behavior any other way than how he chose to interpret it, by blaming the devil himself instead of facing the fact that she just wasn't into him anymore. A few days after my Bishop friend told me about this case he was dealing with over the phone, at which time I suggested for him to allow me to speak with the man because I saw my Bishop friend heavily burdened by this, I was informed this man killed himself by jumping off a bridge in New York City. He drove himself to madness and despair. Perhaps it was he who needed the exorcism.
 
This is also part of the problem when you get a bunch of abused women waiting for years to fully realize everything that happened with them, they begin to interpret every little thing in the abusive relationship through the prism of abuse even if in reality it had nothing to do with it. It can easily be done, so why not do it, as long as it makes him look as bad as possible and me as good and innocent as possible. I can certainly look back on all the good relationships I had that ended badly and twist all the good and make it sound sinister and bad. This is exactly what Evan is doing in this interview, and has been doing for years with Manson, if there is even a kernel of truth to what she is saying. In reality, these stories from Evan seem very fabricated to fit her outline of what a narcissist is like, as if she wrote down a checkbox and needed Manson to be able to check every box, and how she was the victim of narcissist. Evan knows her audience. She did the same thing when she was on the A Little Bit Culty podcast, when she knew she was talking to an audience of people interested in cults and so she focused on all the textbook definitions of what a cult leader is like. For Evan, she describes everything in a textbook way, indicating that she forms her stories based on what she has read about the subject and not based on actual experience. She sounds more like an author promoting a book she wrote and researched rather than someone to whom what she talks about actually happened.

14. One thing I've noticed in this and other interviews is that whenever Evan describes her relationship with Manson, she usually describes it in terms of her being his servant, and not only his own servant, but she also would serve his ungrateful guests, as if she had no part of his life outside of being his servant, and if she wasn't a perfect servant then Manson would yell at her all night for not being a perfect servant. But poor little Evan was trying to be big bad Manson's perfect servant and just couldn't get it right no matter how hard she tried, painting herself like she is some sort of a Cinderella-like figure forced into servanthood and her dreaming of her escape. It just gets that ridiculous, that you can only compare the narrative she has formulated to a fairytale like Cinderella. She did the same thing in Phoenix Rising with her similarly ridiculous fairytale of Manson forcing her to make him dinner as soon as she got her abortion.   

 
15. At around the 23 minute mark we get to the most likely reason why Evan went on this show: for a so-called doctor (who sounds more like a quack) to confirm over and over again the fact that between 18 and 22 when Evan knew Manson, she was just a child whose brain had not developed into adulthood yet. This type of thinking is based on the modern myth that you are not an adult until your brain has fully developed, which according to the latest "studies" means that you are not an adult until some point in your 30's. Before your 30's, you are incapable of making an adult decision. But if this were true, and I don't believe it is, then think of the wide range of implications this would have. This would mean that we are allowing children incapable of making mature decisions to be in the army, to vote, to navigate dangerous vehicles, to own weapons, to marry, have children and so on. If every decision we make before our 30's is an immature decision, then how should we apply this in every aspect of our lives, because it would need to be applied to every aspect? It's theories like this that give science a bad name, because some so-called quack scientists are doing nothing but manipulating science to fit their philosophical ideologies, since science actually says nothing about what adulthood means. Full brain maturation has never been a definition of adulthood. Some would in fact define adulthood as having the ability to live without supervision, and historically this was usually between 16 and 18 years old, sometimes even younger, but in today's society which values the education of young adults and longer times of preparing for life, the definition of when adulthood begins keeps getting older and older.

16. I do want to mention here that Evan was not 22 when her relationship with Manson completely ended. She was around 5 months into being 23 years old. For some reason, she says she was 18 when they were first romantic, which is not true, she was 19, and she was 22 when they broke up, which is not true, she was 23.

17. Anyone who reads about the various child stars in Hollywood, especially the ones who grow up rich, will find that they have not developed socially like a teenager who grew up in a more lower class of society. They may be a little more immature, but they could also be a lot more mature in other ways. Though Evan grew up a child star who was famous and successful, by the time she was 22 she experienced a lot more than most 22 year olds. She traveled the world, socialized with the famous, dated famous actors, been engaged to a rock star, and had been adored by fans everywhere, eagerly sought for in interviews, modeling work and sponsorships. When she was 14 she even lived alone with her 13 year old boyfriend in their own private apartment. Yet here she says that by the time she was 22 and out of the relationship with Manson, she felt like all her peers surpassed her and she needed a lot of catching up to do. I don't believe this for a second, which makes me think she is out of touch with reality and not aware of the fact that it was she who surpassed her peers (Evan even got married and had a kid by the time she was 25). If she really does feel like this, then it has nothing to do with Manson, because at the time she would specifically say in many interviews how he helped her grow up and be more independent, since before she was with him she would be attached at the hip to her mom, even sleeping in the same bed with her mom, who dictated every aspect of her life, which Manson was helping to free her from, not because he was trying to have Evan all to himself, but because she wanted to detach and couldn't recognize that her mother was infantilizing her. If Evan felt under developed, it was because of her parents, especially her mother and her lack of a father, and it had nothing to do with Manson, who she said in 2011 had a hand in raising her. I would also add that Evan at her own admission was very confused sexually and closeted as a bisexual until 2011, which is something else that could make her feel less developed and established and behind her peers, most of whom didn't have to navigate a new path in their sexuality like Evan felt like she did. This is apparently the reason why she divorced Jaime Bell as well, because she wanted to experience a relationship with a woman and Jaime Bell wasn't into that.

18. You know when a young adult, as Evan Rachel Wood was at the time she met Manson, because she was indeed capable of independent thought and survival, is over-accusing someone when they accuse them of every little fault in their life. Over-accusing is a red flag for bitterness to the degree where the accusations they make seem more and more unreliable and untrustworthy. Notice how Evan accuses Manson of stunting the development of her life skills, communication skills, relationship skills and her all around ability to function. When accusations like this come out, you know that this is a person with a grudge who wants to blame everything negative about themselves possible on someone else. Usually such blame is wrongfully put on parents, but to put it on a boyfriend and later fiance she was hardly together with due to their different career paths is a whole other level of false blame. Evan has stated in many interviews how she is an introvert, and now she is trying to blame this personality trait on Manson (interestingly, in some of her early interviews Evan describes herself as a people person in one place but in another place as an introvert who loves music and movies and books). Then she goes on to blame Manson for her inability to look at photos and movies of herself from before their relationship? This makes no sense. She has criticized the movies she was in from before she was 18 for sexually exploiting her as a teenager, and has posted a number of photos of herself as a teenager on social media with a typical embarrassment all people have because of their hair or clothes or something else no longer in fashion. One thing that's for sure, Manson had nothing to do with her teenage choices, but years ago on Twitter she would call out people and magazines that she reflected back on negatively, but never Manson. She even claims she cut herself and tried to kill herself when she around 12, before she met Manson, but now she is blaming Manson for all these things?

19. I won't get into her supposed suicide attempt here, because I've addressed it elsewhere, but it should be noted that whether or not Evan really tried to kill herself, I would argue it has a lot more to do with Evan's mother and father than with Manson, and if it was related to Manson at all, it was likely due to the grief of her abortion, her cheating, maybe his relationship with his current wife Lindsay which seemed to have begun when he was engaged to Evan, and of course the end of their engagement. Being a drug addict doesn't help either.

20. What Evan lacks in her effort to find healing through self-help or even through therapy, is her inability to self-evaluate and take inventory of herself and evaluating her actions and thoughts and changing things for the better. Therapists should be teaching people to do this instead of teaching them to blame all the wrongs in their patient's life on people from their past. And if people need to deal with a grievance somebody did to them in the past, they need to be taught the value and freedom of forgiveness and moving forward instead of focusing on the past and harboring more and more hate with over-analysis, which is soul destroying. These things are a lot more easy for people who believe in God or a Higher Power and a higher purpose to their existence, but in all her therapy-speak Evan never refers to such beliefs, which makes me question if she really has such beliefs, even though she does claim to believe in some sort of God and identifies as Jewish.

21. When this doctor interviewing her criticizes the idea of "red flags" on the basis that such an idea puts the responsibility on the survivor to recognize them, Evan is quick to agree with her, because she is quick to agree with any idea that would shift any responsibility off of her and put it on Manson or someone besides herself. Personally, I do think the idea of "red flags" should be approached with caution, because they are like searching the internet for the symptoms of a medical condition you might have, even though you have no medical training to properly diagnose yourself. I certainly wouldn't discard red-flags because they supposedly put blame on the survivor for not recognizing them, but red flags should be approached with caution and skepticism. Going down a checklist can be very deceiving.

22. Evan says that between the ages of 16 and 24, you are "a child in an adults body." What is interesting with that is that unless you are told this, no 16 to 24 year old would call themselves a child. These types of categories usually are applied when you are older and look back on your life. For example, I am currently 47, but when I look back on myself at the age of 35 I think how young I was and how I wasted my youth, even though when I was 35 I felt like I was getting old and should try to settle down. I'm sure when I'm 65 I will look back on myself at my current age of 47 and think how young I was also. But throughout this interview, you have two older women evaluating an 18 year old over and over again as a child, and the more society tells 18 to 24 year olds they are children, the more they will be like children.

23. It should be noted, that when Evan met Manson, even right before, she was making plans to move away from Los Angeles and was looking at places to live in New York City. There is a whole interview with her from this time talking about wanting to be independent in New York and center her acting career there. So these thoughts of Evan wanting to be on her own away from her mother were not ideas Manson implanted in her, if anything he helped keep her in Los Angeles near her mother. It wasn't until right after they broke up that Evan did eventually move to New York, though she had a place there before because she often worked and filmed in New York even while she was with Manson. And as far as Manson helping Evan to get a better business contract when she was 18, this should have been seen as good advice, and it shows that Manson viewed Evan as an independent adult capable of making her own adult decisions independently from her mother, but now it sounds like Evan still wanted her childhood contracts even after 18 and she still wanted to be dependent on her mother for everything, though we know at the time she felt the opposite way.

24. If Evan's real therapist, if she even has one, is anything like the lady interviewing her, then it is no wonder why Evan is such a twisted individual. This doctor is really horrible. I don't think I've agreed with one thing she has said in this interview, and I feel sorry for any real survivor who has to hear garbage like this when real survivors are trying to get real therapy.

25. We finally have a confession from Evan as to why she over-emphasizes that she was 18 and groomed. It's because, as she says here, she read stories on the internet that Manson had sex with teenagers in the 1990's. These stories, except one, are allegations usually made by people who knew these girls, never from the girls themselves, even though recently Bianca Allaine, whom Manson says he never even knew, changed her story to bridge the gap by making herself one of his teenage victims even though she previously stated it was a close friend of hers and not herself. I find it humorous how Evan interprets the allegations of Manson being a pedophile as applying to her relationship and why Manson chose her because she was flat chested and a teenager. It's odd she can even say that in any serious manner. But this is the kind of stupidity you hear when 36 year olds refer to their 18 year old self as a child - now they start to believe the older people they dated at the time are pedophiles (Manson is not the only older person Evan had a relationship with between 18 and 23), even though the definition of a pedophile is one who is sexually interested in pre-pubescent boys or girls, which she certainly was not. If Manson groomed her for being flat chested and 18, then all his previous relationships would be like her, but none of them are, before or since. She was unique. And nobody would say Manson's ex-fiance Rose and his ex-wife Dita were flat chested - just the opposite, and neither of them looked particularly young either, as if they were teens. But now, after reading internet stories with no first-hand testimony, Evan claims Manson was living a double life with her, and she based her entire documentary on these allegations of pedophilia, which have been completely unsubstantiated. This segment of the interview makes me think of the possibility that the reason Bianca sued Manson was at the encouragement of Evan to get this accusation of pedophilia more reported.

26. One of the more interesting new things in this interview is actually part of a theory I have had with regard to Evan's films making an impact on how she thinks of herself being a victim of sexual assault. She brings up the sexual assault scene in the 2015 film Into the Forest as being the first time she started questioning things that happened to her and therefore realizing or considering Manson as possibly having sexually assaulted her. This is a very significant admission she has never made before, and there may be some legitimacy to what she is saying, because it actually makes sense. Here is what she said in an interview with TIME in July 2016, when she was asked about how emotionally taxing it was for her to go through that sexual assault scene:

"I was nervous the whole time leading up to it. I had to convince my body and mind that it really was happening. We did it in one take and the capillaries in my eyes burst from screaming. After Ellen held me, and that was it. I gave a speech to the crew about not staying silent and speaking up. I don’t think you can throw a stone without hitting a woman that’s been sexually assaulted or sexually harassed."

Evan even ate poker-chip sized portions of lettuce and chickpeas to get a sense of her character's hunger while filming. As Evan tells TIME, “I really wanted to feel what the girls were feeling.”

I will explore more about Evan's role in Into the Forest elsewhere, but for now I think this is a significant revelation.
 
27. Interesting to note here how Evan says she couldn't say she was raped for "many many maaaany years" after it happened, that is, she couldn't come to terms with acknowledging it happened to her. She even says that in interviews for Into the Forest, she would deny she herself was raped. In Phoenix Rising she says something similar, even stating that her supposed meeting with the FBI agent was the first time she ever talked about it with someone. This means that she never told a friend or family member that she was raped probably before November 2016, when she came out to Rolling Stone.

28. Though I have talked about the significance of Westworld in helping Evan come to a self-realization of her abuse, in this interview she much more clearly explains how after Into the Forest and that filming experience, the day after filming was completed she began to film Westworld, and while filming she did not know anything about what would happen to her character. And in order to perform those scenes where she is in some sort of conflict and physical abuse and threatened and raped, she had to draw on past experiences in order to draw real emotion to the scene. By doing this, she went back into her past and felt things for the first time. Then, when she went into trauma therapy, she cried for the first time for what she now realized happened to her.

I will write more elsewhere on how Westworld inspired Evan to come forward, and her acquaintences with other survivors from shooting the first season. Also she mentions that she first told her abuse story to Eve Ensler, who was the first to listen to her and believe her.

29. Weird how she talks about Jaime Bell without ever naming him in this interview. She has a much easier time talking about Marilyn Manson/Brian Warner than she does Jaime Bell. Also, it's ridiculous how she blames any lying she did to Jaime Bell in their relationship on Manson, cause she says she was programmed to not tell the truth while she was with Manson and this carried over to her marriage with Jaime Bell. This, like many other things, falls under the category of over-accusing to the point of sounding absurd.

30. Evan gets into an odd moment of contradiction when talking about going into trauma therapy and the therapist not questioning her and it being the first time she told anyone of her abuse. Earlier she said it was Eve Ensler. Okay, fine, maybe she told two people, but then she says how a lot of people before this would blame her and not believe her. This is when you question, how many people did you really tell, or are you just making that part up.

31. Self-blame could be the reaction of an abuse survivor, but self-blame could also be a good thing if you did something wrong and need to hold yourself accountable instead of falsely blaming others for your wrong.

32. Interesting how Evan has a moment of honesty with herself, as she similarly did in Phoenix Rising, and talks about the trauma of blame put on her by the media when she first started dating Manson, which includes being blamed for his marriage breaking up and for trying to get ahead in her career by doing so. It's easy to see how in a twisted way she allowed that to trickle to her blaming Manson for her going through that when she was in fact trying to be a media darling and adjust from being viewed as a child actress to an adult actress (this was a major stress factor when Evan turned 18). And when her relationship with Manson ended and she was trying to rebrand herself to what she was before Manson, this type of negative media coverage was in all likelihood the source of any trauma, if she did have any trauma, from her relationship with Manson. Then she mentions how her mother, Jaime Bell and and her agents and people working for her were trying to make her be cautious with Manson because of his rock and roll lifestyle and age difference. Manson telling her to not pay attention to what people are saying, and trying to make her feel safe in the relationship she wanted is now interpreted by her as a sign of control and manipulation. However, this contradicts everything Evan said and believed for almost a decade in interviews, so when she says the total opposite of what she was saying for many years later, it just sounds like she is reevaluating her past decisions and putting blame on Manson when in fact it was what she willingly chose for herself and had no bad feelings about it at the time. Now she feels the need to blame someone else, because she can't take the pain of blaming herself and taking responsibility, so it just helps her to make Manson more and more of a monster that in fact he never was. It is a cowardly way of reevaluating her past.

33. The story of Evan getting roofied and her mother's reaction makes no sense. She says it happened years after being in a relationship with Manson, and even after all the drugs and alcohol Evan consumed till that time, her mom is concerned about her having one drink? Furthermore, in Phoenix Rising Evan's mom talks about supposedly knowing Evan got drugged on the set of the "Heart-Shaped Glasses" video, which is actually not true at all.

34. It's become clear that Evan did some sort of therapy with her mom. It is also pretty clear that in the process of this therapy two things happened: first, Evan made her mom feel guilty for a lot that happened to her in her childhood, and second, Evan blamed Manson for keeping them apart when she dated Manson.

35. This makes me question even more Evan's mom in Phoenix Rising, where everything she says is problematic. One of the places in Phoenix Rising where Evan's mom totally fabricates a story is when she says Manson called 158 times on Christmas thinking he was calling Evan, as if Evan didn't have a cell phone Manson could have called her on, but instead he called her mother's landline who couldn't stand him. Meanwhile, he and Evan were in communication even after they broke up in 2008 and he must have known that she went to her father's house for Christmas and that Evan's mom didn't celebrate Christmas, being Jewish.

36. I agree with what Evan claims to be Manson's evaluation of her mother, that Evan was under her control, Evan craved independence and sought it, her mother saw this as a threat, so she did whatever she could to regain control. This seems very accurate, but now that Evan and her mom have been through some sort of therapy, this correct evaluation has been turned on Manson as the one who was trying to control Evan and isolate her from her mother and harbor anger against her. If it is true that Manson encouraged Evan to not speak to her mother, it seems like he did it to help her and it was something that he didn't necessarily tell her to do but encouraged her own thinking along those lines. But sometimes a mother who can't accept that their children have become adults and can make their own decisions needs to be isolated from in order to gain the independence the child needs, at least for a short time.
 
This reminds me of the 1976 horror movie Carrie. Carrie tries to be independent of her mother, and the greatest threat to the mother is Carrie's interest in a boy she is going to the prom with. When Carrie realizes it was all fake, she took revenge on everyone that laughed at her, but even on the people who had good intentions and really tried to help her, like the boy who felt sorry for her and wanted her to have a good prom. Then, when all that was over, Carrie went home crying to her mother, but her mother still didn't accept her so she killed her too.
 
In Evan's case, the mother did accept her back, in a way, and thus she became an accomplice of Evan.
 
(Weirdly, when I was writing this and I searched for the movie Carrie on the internet, I read that Piper Laurie, who plays Carrie's mother in the movie, died the day prior.)


37. Dr. Ramani is completely wrong here to encourage Evan's thinking that she had no free will or power to choose when she was in a relationship with Manson just because he was twice her age. She confirms Evan's ideas about being under complete control of Manson, which is absurd, and will only lead to people in society looking down upon such couples if we ever encounter them and view the man as a groomer and abuser whether he is or not and viewing the woman as a victim, thus causing a witch hunt type of persecution. Not even people in real cults are like they describe. A person who is in a real cult chooses to be loyal and obedient, it isn't forced upon them. Even if they are manipulated, they are happy to be so. What Dr. Ramani and Evan describe is something that goes beyond what a cult can do, and we enter more along the lines of national dictators who have a team of specialists torturing people into submission, or like in the Korean and Vietnam wars use brainwashing techniques, which are usually so intense that there is no possible way to recover. Evan's life during and after her relationship with Manson, though she now tries to convince us otherwise, in no way reflects such intense torture. It is when Evan describes things like this and doctors confirm such absurdities that you can immediately spot how much of a fraud this is. In real abusive relationships, if a woman stays, even if it is out of fear, she chooses to stay. There is no control to the point of losing free will. Evan elsewhere tries to convince us that she was imprisoned in the house, but if she was really imprisoned then there would be no discussion of Manson taking away her free will, since imprisoning implies that Evan did choose to leave but she was being forced not to.  Of course, there is plenty of evidence that proves Evan was never imprisoned, since Evan can be seen constantly traveling and filming and attending events throughout the relationship freely, sometimes even with her family, whom she now tries to convince us that Manson was trying to keep her away from, which again can be disproven with adequate evidence.

38. The main problem with this interview and with Dr. Ramani is that she is diagnosing Manson as a narcissist solely based on the words of his ex-fiance, with whom he had an off and on relationship that was sometimes volatile and involved substantial amounts of time for them to be in other relationships in between. She never questions Evan and never qualifies Manson as an "alleged" narcissist or try to explain situations like "perhaps he did this because", and instead talks as if she knows him intimately, even what motivated him and what his intentions were, and like Evan she repeats "he did this because", eliminating every other possibility. Only a quack doctor does something like this. Therapists like this can never offer real therapy, even if it appears they do, instead they just cover over one issue with another issue that is more tolerable to deal with.

39. The story of Evan's best friend since 8 years old is a new one, and a good excuse for Evan to introduce the term "flying monkey", which she has used before, but here uses it as a weapon against Manson's unnamed assistant, who is probably supposed to be Paula Baby whom Evan never liked, though not sure if it is her since it doesn't fit the timeline, but clearly Evan here wants to take a swipe at her because she spoke out against Evan in more recent interviews with Colonel Kurtz. The story doesn't sound like it is true though, or like many of Evan's stories it is extremely one-sided. This best friend of Evan's seems to be the same person who from February 20, 2009 till at least July 2009, was Evan's personal assistant named Danielle, who Evan would refer to in interviews because in the 5th grade they met in a Taekwondo class in Calabasas, California and were best friends. I'm assuming this is the same person, but not sure.

40. In regards to Manson being controlling with Evan's brother and her best friend, we should remind people that Evan put out a statement on this with People magazine that was published on November 7, 2008, after their first breakup, because the media was falsely reporting that the reason Manson and Evan broke up in October 2008 was because they got into a bitter fight over her brother Ira, who Manson kicked out of his house. Her statements says:

“Manson and I both decided to take some time apart so we could concentrate on work. Someone used that opportunity to kick us while we were down and sell a completely false story. Manson owns the house he lives in. My brother has never stayed there and the person that said such horrible things about Manson being ‘controlling’ and ’emotionally abusive’ is certainly no source ‘close’ to me. Manson has been by my side and taken care of me through the best and worst times. I love him as a person and as an artist. I will always be proud to have been a part of that. If any more attacks are made on us, it is the act of a desperate, selfish person, who is angry to no longer be a part of my life. No further comment will be made and we request our privacy at this time.”

This statement, in light of what Evan says in the interview with Dr. Ramani, now makes Evan sound like the "desperate, selfish person, who is angry" that she criticized back then.

41. Getting back to Evan's controlling mother, can't we just as much view her action of showing up at Manson's house unannounced come off as her not being able to let go over the control she had of Evan and making her feel guilty for not inviting her? Why didn't Evan's mom call first? This only confirms that Evan's mom was the one who had issues of control, not Manson. If Manson had issues, then the story would be that when the mother shows up at Manson's house, Evan wanted to desperately see her, but Manson prevented them from seeing each other. However, this is not the story. Evan herself says she did not want to speak to her mother, though we are not told if they did speak that day. Plus, why is it so easy to walk right up to Manson's front door? As with every story involving Evan's mother, it leaves you with more questions than answers.

42. "You're either gonna join me in my reality, or I'm gonna punish you or gaslight you into agreeing or running away." In this quote Evan perfectly summarizes herself, even though in context she is trying to describe Manson.

43. Evan and Dr. Ramani then go on a long diatribe of gaslighting us into believing an alternate reality. Let's be honest, just about this entire interview is Evan and Dr. Ramani gaslighting us. It is completely absurd on every level, but is a great lesson in how gaslighters gaslight.

47. The talk of Manson taking away Evan's ability to empathize is pretty funny. Over-accusing.

48. Allegedly this is what Evan said to her partners after Manson: "You have to approach me like you would a sheltered dog." This is a bit unfair if she becomes like a rabid dog to her partners, and adds the opportunity for Evan to make herself the victim of whatever happens in any other relationship. We see how she is clearly using this tactic till this day with Jaime Bell.

49. I've noticed at least three times in this interview where Evan was about to get into something controversial, and it immediately cuts off and is edited out.

50. "When someone is in a groomed relationship, there is never consent." Dr. Ramani is basically talking to Evan as if Manson groomed her from the age of five. At 19, there is always consent, and if there isn't, then you have the freedom to choose whether or not you will stay or leave. Dr. Ramani tries to convince Evan and us her listeners that Evan had no possible choice in anything, that she had no free will, that Evan could have done nothing different but remain Manson's victim. Listening to this doctor is like listening to a fraud psychic who tells you everything you want to hear.

51. "I tried to kill myself twice." Evan has only spoken about her one suicide attempt at 22. When was her second suicide attempt? Supposedly Evan tried to kill herself at 12 when she was taken out of school for being bullied, which prompted her to learn Taekwondo.

In light of the above, I encourage you to re-read the following:

Everything Evan Rachel Wood Said About Marilyn Manson from 2010 to 2015

Epilogue
 
A few days after this interview was posted, it seems like Evan became frustrated by the fact that it didn't get the amount of views she had hoped and seems to be most upset by the fact that the media had nothing to say about it, so on October 7th and 8th she started promoting it on her Instagram page alongside her customary tantrum. This is what she posted, in order, with a few that she deleted and posted differently.



 



 





And of course, when Evan has a tantrum or some sort of meltdown, the media listens; hence the next day many articles like this appeared:
 
"Evan Rachel Wood Recounts Harrowing Details of Alleged Abuse by Marilyn Manson: ‘He Wouldn’t Stop Until You Gave In’" (Billboard)
 
"Evan Rachel Wood says staying with Marilyn Manson 'felt like a death sentence'” (NME)
 
"Evan Rachel Wood details alleged 'brainwashing and abuse' ex-fiancé Marilyn Manson had inflicted in attempt to control her every action" (Daily Mail)
 
"Evan Rachel Wood Details Painful Past With Marilyn Manson: ‘I Realized My Silence Was Keeping Me Sick’" (Messenger)

And now that Evan got what she wanted, she moved on to the next thing ... until next time. (She basically admitted in this interview that she will be talking about Manson for the rest of her life.)

A representative for Manson told The Messenger that there is no statement from Warner's legal team with regards to the podcast. However, a source familiar with the case tells The Messenger, "Most of the false claims made in Evan Rachel Wood's latest interview have already been disputed within Brian's ongoing lawsuit against her, but, rest assured, the new tales she is spinning will be added to our case as well."

 

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