A little over a week ago I wrote about a significant partial dismissal granted to Marilyn Manson on July 2nd in the lawsuit issued by Bianca Allaine Kyne. First, it stated that Manson's motion to dismiss all allegations in Kyne's complaint referencing sexual abuse as a minor in 1995 when she was 16 years old was granted. Second, any reference to Kyne's own personal drawings of Manson from when she was 16 are to be removed. Third, Kyne is therefore ordered to make a Second Amended Complaint within 30 days removing all of the above. Despite this significant victory of Marilyn Manson in managing to get a partial dismissal in this case, on July 15th Bianca Allaine Kyne and her lawyer Jeff Anderson decided to issue statements spinning their loss into a victory. They argue that since Manson was not granted a full dismissal (which he was not seeking), then he lost and they won in this particular ruling. What Was the Ruling on July 2nd? When you read the ruling issued on July
Love and Rockets Concert Poster from March 1996
In the journal section of Marilyn Manson's autobiography The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell, he describes his first meeting with the band members of Bauhaus and Love and Rockets - Daniel Ash, Kevin Haskins and David J. It is dated January 29, 1997 and says it was written in San Diego at 7 A.M.
It is an interesting description of their first meeting. It basically begins with Daniel Ash wanting to hang out with Manson, Manson showing hospitality to his guests and musical idols, and him kissing Manson's ass and wanting to remix a Manson song. But then Daniel Ash takes a 180 turn out of nowhere and starts making accusations against Manson based on rumors and tells him his career is going nowhere. Manson seemed to be very disappointed with the fact that a musical idol of his turned on him over a bunch of false rumors that he was a devil worshiper and rape advocate.
When you read this in light of the accusations brought against Manson today by his accusers and their supporters, you essentially see the same pattern being repeated, but here you have the whole cycle taking place in a very short course of time.
It is an interesting description of their first meeting. It basically begins with Daniel Ash wanting to hang out with Manson, Manson showing hospitality to his guests and musical idols, and him kissing Manson's ass and wanting to remix a Manson song. But then Daniel Ash takes a 180 turn out of nowhere and starts making accusations against Manson based on rumors and tells him his career is going nowhere. Manson seemed to be very disappointed with the fact that a musical idol of his turned on him over a bunch of false rumors that he was a devil worshiper and rape advocate.
When you read this in light of the accusations brought against Manson today by his accusers and their supporters, you essentially see the same pattern being repeated, but here you have the whole cycle taking place in a very short course of time.
JANUARY 29, 1997, SAN DIEGO, 7 A.M.
Another thing I wanted to point out about this passage in his book is the level of its accuracy, since we know that many details in Manson's autobiography are refashioned for the sake of creating a narrative. On the Mansonwiki website, we actually have the testimony of Daniel Ash's girlfriend about this night. She says:
"This actually happened at the Hotel Sofitel in L.A., I was the girlfriend trying to shut him up, Celeste Octavia, Lydia, Trent Reznor and his friend and the other people mentioned were there. To add to this, Daniel kept saying 'I've been up and I've been down, I've been to the other side, it's not the way man, I don't believe in what your doing!' like a broken record. Twiggy and Marilyn were nice hosts."
Daniel Ash's girlfriend therefore confirms the story is a true story, but she says it took place at the Hotel Sofitel in Los Angeles. Meanwhile, the performance on January 28, 1997 took place at Bing Crosby Hall in San Diego, California and the next night he would perform in Las Vegas, so I'm not sure if the band went all the way back to Los Angeles that night.
However, if this was indeed a first encounter between Manson and Daniel Ash, we have to take into account an interview with Alternative Nation's Toby Amies which was filmed on 12 December 1996 and aired on 3 January 1997. The following is reported in the interview:
Toby Amies: ... anybody you'd like to work with.
Marilyn Manson: Uh,
Toby Amies: Oh, I see you've,
Marilyn Manson: Paul Dianno of Iron Maiden.
Twiggy Ramirez: Blackie Lawless of WASP.
Marilyn Manson: Yeah.
Toby Amies: Yeah?
Twiggy Ramirez: Sure.
Marilyn Manson: Daniel Ash.
Toby Amies: Daniel Ash?
Marilyn Manson: He's afraid of us.
Twiggy Ramirez: He's afraid of us.
Toby Amies: Why is Daniel Ash afraid of you?
Marilyn Manson: Uh, I don't know. Every time we run into him,
Twiggy Ramirez: He goes to run.
Marilyn Manson: He runs away from us and he told us that his name was Spider.
Twiggy Ramirez: He's, he's,
Toby Amies: Maybe it's too much deja vu when he sees you.
Twiggy Ramirez: He's, he's he came down when we were recording our record, stopped by the studio and, uh, they asked us for tea or something but we didn't have any.
Marilyn Manson: I think he might have had his pants off and that might have started the whole problem.
Toby Amies: Twiggy had his pants off?
Marilyn Manson: Yep.
So what we have here are some obvious contradictions. What is true and what is false is difficult to decipher, primarily as far as dates are concerned, but also by the fact that in 1996 there was reportedly more than one encounter between Manson and Daniel Ash. As for the name Spider, this may have some reference to a rare track by Daniel Ash from 1985 called "The Spider Song".
In an interview with Guitar World from December 1996, we read:
GW: Were you into any of the Goth bands, like Bauhaus?
Manson: Bauhaus is one of our absolute favorite bands.
Ramirez: Daniel Ash and David J, as far as guitar and bass combinations go, were a really big influence.
Manson: I've always liked Bauhaus, and Joy Division to a minor degree. But really, the Ziggy Stardust-era of Bowie and Diamond Dogs were the big influence — particularly on this record.
Ramirez: Actually, Daniel Ash and David J stopped by when we were recording our record. Daniel likes to be called "Spider."
Manson: I don't know why.
Here we have confirmation that Manson first spoke with Daniel Ash during the recording of Antichrist Superstar, probably in early 1996, and not on tour in January 1997. It looks like Love and Rockets played at the Howling Wolf in New Orleans on March 29, 1996, which would fall in line with Manson recording there at the time. If this is the case, then we can maybe assume Manson did not record the incident from his book in a personal journal, but the journal was written specifically for the book. It is difficult to also distinguish fact from fiction in the interviews, because there is clearly some humorous mockery going on. What seems to be the case is that the encounter at the hotel in January 1997 described in the book was not the first encounter between Manson and Daniel Ash, and it probably did not happen on the date given in the book. Overall, however, the story seems to be true.
"This actually happened at the Hotel Sofitel in L.A., I was the girlfriend trying to shut him up, Celeste Octavia, Lydia, Trent Reznor and his friend and the other people mentioned were there. To add to this, Daniel kept saying 'I've been up and I've been down, I've been to the other side, it's not the way man, I don't believe in what your doing!' like a broken record. Twiggy and Marilyn were nice hosts."
Daniel Ash's girlfriend therefore confirms the story is a true story, but she says it took place at the Hotel Sofitel in Los Angeles. Meanwhile, the performance on January 28, 1997 took place at Bing Crosby Hall in San Diego, California and the next night he would perform in Las Vegas, so I'm not sure if the band went all the way back to Los Angeles that night.
However, if this was indeed a first encounter between Manson and Daniel Ash, we have to take into account an interview with Alternative Nation's Toby Amies which was filmed on 12 December 1996 and aired on 3 January 1997. The following is reported in the interview:
Toby Amies: ... anybody you'd like to work with.
Marilyn Manson: Uh,
Toby Amies: Oh, I see you've,
Marilyn Manson: Paul Dianno of Iron Maiden.
Twiggy Ramirez: Blackie Lawless of WASP.
Marilyn Manson: Yeah.
Toby Amies: Yeah?
Twiggy Ramirez: Sure.
Marilyn Manson: Daniel Ash.
Toby Amies: Daniel Ash?
Marilyn Manson: He's afraid of us.
Twiggy Ramirez: He's afraid of us.
Toby Amies: Why is Daniel Ash afraid of you?
Marilyn Manson: Uh, I don't know. Every time we run into him,
Twiggy Ramirez: He goes to run.
Marilyn Manson: He runs away from us and he told us that his name was Spider.
Twiggy Ramirez: He's, he's,
Toby Amies: Maybe it's too much deja vu when he sees you.
Twiggy Ramirez: He's, he's he came down when we were recording our record, stopped by the studio and, uh, they asked us for tea or something but we didn't have any.
Marilyn Manson: I think he might have had his pants off and that might have started the whole problem.
Toby Amies: Twiggy had his pants off?
Marilyn Manson: Yep.
So what we have here are some obvious contradictions. What is true and what is false is difficult to decipher, primarily as far as dates are concerned, but also by the fact that in 1996 there was reportedly more than one encounter between Manson and Daniel Ash. As for the name Spider, this may have some reference to a rare track by Daniel Ash from 1985 called "The Spider Song".
In an interview with Guitar World from December 1996, we read:
GW: Were you into any of the Goth bands, like Bauhaus?
Manson: Bauhaus is one of our absolute favorite bands.
Ramirez: Daniel Ash and David J, as far as guitar and bass combinations go, were a really big influence.
Manson: I've always liked Bauhaus, and Joy Division to a minor degree. But really, the Ziggy Stardust-era of Bowie and Diamond Dogs were the big influence — particularly on this record.
Ramirez: Actually, Daniel Ash and David J stopped by when we were recording our record. Daniel likes to be called "Spider."
Manson: I don't know why.
Here we have confirmation that Manson first spoke with Daniel Ash during the recording of Antichrist Superstar, probably in early 1996, and not on tour in January 1997. It looks like Love and Rockets played at the Howling Wolf in New Orleans on March 29, 1996, which would fall in line with Manson recording there at the time. If this is the case, then we can maybe assume Manson did not record the incident from his book in a personal journal, but the journal was written specifically for the book. It is difficult to also distinguish fact from fiction in the interviews, because there is clearly some humorous mockery going on. What seems to be the case is that the encounter at the hotel in January 1997 described in the book was not the first encounter between Manson and Daniel Ash, and it probably did not happen on the date given in the book. Overall, however, the story seems to be true.